WUNC’s The State of Things recently invited Cathy to discuss what it means to pay attention and the complicated ways we each learn to do so.

“The point of turning the classroom around is to get away from thinking that attention is always something hierarchical that someone makes you do and [to] make you a little bit more mindful of your own learning,” she told Frank Stasio during the interview. “Once you know something and have to teach it to somebody else , it’s a different level of learning than when you just regurgitate it on a test.”

You can listen to the full program here.